Grand Rounds September 26, 2025: Significance in ePCTs: P Values vs Decision-Maker Perspectives (Gregory E. Simon, MD, MPH; Susan Huang, MD, MPH; Elizabeth Turner, PhD)

Speakers

Gregory E. Simon, MD, MPH
Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute

Susan Huang, MD, MPH
University of California Irvine

Elizabeth Turner, PhD
Duke University

Keywords

P-Values; Significance; Statistical Analysis; Pragmatic Trials; Decision-Makers

Key Points

  • P-values are a part of the statistical process of hypothesis and significance testing. They quantify of the degree of “surprise” in a finding. The result is dichotomous; a P-value of less than 0.05 is considered statistically significant, while a P-value greater than or equal to 0.05 is not.
  • 0.05 is a useful but somewhat arbitrary cutoff. It was probably first described in Statistical Methods for Medical Workers by R. A. Fisher: “It is convenient to take this point as a limit in judging whether a deviation is to be considered significant or not.” According to an anecdote shared by Fisher’s daughter, he identified the cutoff as “convincing enough” based on an informal experiment with a colleague.
  • Using a single threshold to determine significance can be problematic in real-world settings. Healthcare decisionmakers are seeking solutions to multi-dimensional problems, and they care about subgroups. Dr. Huang illustrated this point with an overview of ABATE Infection trial and her team’s subsequent collaboration with decision-makers.
  • ABATE Infection was a pragmatic, cluster-randomized trial assessing universal decolonization in non-ICUs. While decolonization wasn’t effective for all non-ICU patients, a post-hoc analysis found that the intervention was highly effective in patients with medical devices. This finding was practically significant and was included in national guidance around decolonization.
  • In a cost-effectiveness analysis of universal, targeted, or no decolonization for patients with medical devices, the ABATE team found that the optimal outcome was dependent on site circumstances, i.e. prevalence of device use, adherence to targeted decolonization, and financial penalties for bloodstream infection.
  • For years, experts have questioned the reliance on P-values. On the other hand, there are concerns that rejecting “H1 – H0” could prove to be a slippery slope to data dredging and “post-hoc chicanery.”
  • The dogma of the P-value may be more applicable to a clinical trial setting than to a pragmatic setting. Establishing the standard of care requires a high level of certainty. Scientific rigor demands rules and a threshold that isn’t affected by cost.
  • In hospitals, clinical decisions are rarely based on certainty; safe interventions that are low-cost and have a possible benefit are given more consideration. Decision-makers should understand the probability of benefit at a given P-value; circumstances may warrant adoption.
  • In pragmatic trials, valuable information may include the intervention effect size, the effect for various outcomes and on various subgroups, and information pertinent to implementation: fidelity, reach, cost, etc.
  • Decision-making is complex and multidimensional. What is important may depend on context, audience, or other situational factors. While P-values can be useful in decision-making, they aren’t the only piece of the puzzle.

Discussion Themes

Changing the reliance on P-values would require a multi-pronged, multi-dimensional approach; sponsors, journals, and other stakeholders each uphold the use of P-values for various reasons. Perhaps the best way to start integrating this perspective shift into the clinical trials ecosystem is to hold the line, routinely seeking and providing information about a variety of outcomes and confidence levels.

If we hold that the underlying but unknown truth is fixed, then our process for arriving at conclusions regarding a treatment’s effectiveness (or whether the treatment has a favorable benefit-risk profile) inherently has important operating characteristics, such as the Type I error rate. If we move away from P-values, we will need to define a design approach that considers these operating characteristics.

Maybe it’s more practical to think about honing into a standard of care as an iterative process, in the way that human learning is an iterative process; to state that we know something to some degree of certainty, then modify, refine, and get closer to defining these truths.

September 24, 2025: P Values vs Decision-Maker Perspectives, in This Week’s Rethinking Clinical Trials Grand Rounds

In a special session of Rethinking Clinical Trials Grand Rounds on September 26, longtime leaders from the NIH Pragmatic Trials Collaboratory will present “Significance in Pragmatic Clinical Trials: P Values vs Decision-Maker Perspectives.”

The Grand Rounds session will be held on Friday, September 26, 2025, at 1:00 pm eastern.

Greg Simon is a senior investigator at the Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute, a member of the NIH Collaboratory leadership team, and a cochair of the NIH Collaboratory’s Health Care Systems Interactions Core. Susan Huang is a Chancellor’s Professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at the UC Irvine School of Medicine and the medical director of epidemiology and infection prevention at UCI Health. She was the principal investigator for ABATE Infection, an NIH Collaboratory Trial. Liz Turner is an associate professor of biostatistics and bioinformatics and global health at Duke University and a cochair of the NIH Collaboratory’s Biostatistics and Study Design Core.

Join the online meeting.

September 8, 2025: P Values vs Decision-Maker Perspectives, in a Special Grand Rounds Session on September 26

In a special session of Rethinking Clinical Trials Grand Rounds on September 26, longtime leaders from the NIH Pragmatic Trials Collaboratory will present “Significance in Pragmatic Clinical Trials: P Values vs Decision-Maker Perspectives.”

The Grand Rounds session will be held on Friday, September 26, 2025, at 1:00 pm eastern.

Greg Simon is a senior investigator at the Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute, a member of the NIH Collaboratory leadership team, and a cochair of the NIH Collaboratory’s Health Care Systems Interactions Core. Susan Huang is a Chancellor’s Professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at the UC Irvine School of Medicine and the medical director of epidemiology and infection prevention at UCI Health. She was the principal investigator for ABATE Infection, an NIH Collaboratory Trial. Liz Turner is an associate professor of biostatistics and bioinformatics and global health at Duke University and a cochair of the NIH Collaboratory’s Biostatistics and Study Design Core.

Join the online meeting.

 

January 24, 2023: INSPIRE Intervention Goes Live, Will Use Predictive Algorithm to Reduce Unnecessary Antibiotic Prescribing

Headshot of Dr. Shruti Gohil
Dr. Shruti Gohil

The INSPIRE NIH Collaboratory Trial went live this month, with a new order entry screen being activated in the electronic health record at 51 hospital sites randomized to the intervention.

Congratulations to lead investigator Dr. Shruti Gohil, co–principal investigators Dr. Susan Huang and Dr. Richard Platt, and the INSPIRE team!

INSPIRE is studying the effectiveness of a personalized clinical decision support program in improving antibiotic prescribing for non–critically ill patients hospitalized with abdominal infections or skin and soft tissue infections. The trial is comparing routine care under hospital-based antibiotic stewardship programs with an enhanced program that adds a predictive algorithm to reduce unnecessary prescribing of extended-spectrum antibiotics.

The computerized provider order entry system at sites in the intervention group prompts physicians when the antibiotic they select is discordant with the estimated need for that antibiotic. The 18-month study will evaluate approximately 53,000 patients with abdominal infections and approximately 37,000 patients with skin or soft tissue infections.

Headshot of Dr. Susan Huang
Dr. Susan Huang
Headshot of Dr. Richard Platt
Dr. Richard Platt

Learn more about INSPIRE.

INSPIRE is supported within the NIH Pragmatic Trials Collaboratory by a grant from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID).

November 29, 2022: INSPIRE NIH Collaboratory Trial Joins the NIH Pragmatic Trials Collaboratory

Headshot of Dr. Shruti Gohil
Dr. Shruti Gohil

The NIH Pragmatic Trials Collaboratory is excited to welcome the INSPIRE NIH Collaboratory Trial to its portfolio of innovative, large-scale pragmatic clinical trials embedded in healthcare systems.

INSPIRE (or Intelligent Stewardship Prompts to Improve Real-Time Empiric Antibiotic Selection for Patients) will implement the INSPIRE-ASP Trials for Abdominal and Skin and Soft Tissue Infections. These 2 cluster randomized trials will study the effectiveness of a personalized clinical decision support program in improving antibiotic prescribing for non–critically ill patients who are hospitalized with abdominal infections or skin and soft tissue infections.

Although fewer than 5% of such patients have an antibiotic-resistant infection, more than half receive extended-spectrum antibiotics. Tools to support clinicians in judicious antibiotic prescribing are needed to curb the urgent public health threat of antibiotic resistance. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, more than 2.8 million antimicrobial-resistant infections occur each year in the United States alone, and more than 35,000 people die as a result.

Dr. Shruti Gohil will serve as INSPIRE’s lead investigator. Gohil is an assistant professor of medicine at the University of California, Irvine, and associate medical director of epidemiology and infection prevention at UCI Health. Dr. Susan Huang, professor of medicine at UC Irvine, and Dr. Richard Platt, professor and chair of population medicine at the Harvard Pilgrim Health Care Institute, are the co–principal investigators for the project.

Headshot of Dr. Susan Huang
Dr. Susan Huang
Headshot of Dr. Richard Platt
Dr. Richard Platt

The INSPIRE NIH Collaboratory Trial is supported within the NIH Pragmatic Trials Collaboratory by a grant from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID).

Huang and Platt are experienced investigators in the NIH Collaboratory. Huang was principal investigator of the ABATE Infection NIH Collaboratory Trial. Platt is a member of the program’s Coordinating Center leadership and cochair of the Distributed Research Network.

Learn more about the NIH Collaboratory Trials.